The Church

A Wilderness Wandering After the “Quiet Exodus”

quiet exodus
Comments (13)
  1. Frank says:

    I was an election official during the 2016 Presidential Election. My precinct was/is nearly 100% black. As we counted/reconciled ballots (it’s mandatory), I was shocked to see that probably 1/3 of the ballots had been cast for Donald Trump.

    Let me put it bluntly: Blacks who are screaming at white evangelicals, calling them names and equating them to Hitler’s minions, have got some SERIOUS explaining to do! And probably some serious introspection and soul-searching to do.

    1. Tim H says:

      Well Frank, since you decided to put your 2¢ in, your miniscule sample hardly equates to “the most since Reagan” wouldn’t you as an educated election official agree?

      The screaming blacks you referenced are most likely the not the 8-10% of all African Americans that voted for Trump.

      Since you’re assuming (gotta watch that ass-u-me thing) that those screaming blacks got some ‘splainin’ to do, I would surmise they voted for what they THOUGHT was the lesser of two evils.

      And since you don’t know me but choose to assume (there it is again) I have a hated for white people I can assure you that I love me some white folks. So much so that I listen to white music (only country though) go to a white church (that won’t\can’t play black music) and (gasp) even gots me some white friends (ok, one white friend).

      As for that votin’ thang, this is ‘merica, son. Last I checked, anybody can votes for whosoever they’s little heart desires.

  2. Annie C. Burley says:

    Jemar and everyone in the pass the Mic crew truths table, bo, everyone!! Can you talk and discus suprmacy of knowlege amongst white Christians with love and wisdom pleeeeaaasssse. Thats all it is In these comments. They can’t see they are crucially blind in this area bc they are trained to be the center of pure “objectivity” of pure reason of pure wisdom. Thats all it is. Thats the danger.

    1. Annie C. Burley says:

      Beau York* my bad not “bo”. But I wasn’t joking when I said everyone. The website designer can talk on it 😂😂😂.

    2. Thomas W. says:

      Ms Annie, Who are you referring to, if I may ask?

      1. Annie C. Burley says:

        Absolutly you!
        And others who comment like you with such speciffied Disdain When it comes to writer and specific topics. “Im just not sure you do. “At the end of your first Response here is all Someone needs To read expose where your heart in this matter too. And many other troubling comments you continue to make under think Pieces like this.
        Now i dont normally comment. I just frolic through the articles. some I like and some that are hard for me to digest. but my god! there is no digestion In your comments here in THE slightest . Its like your itching to just go in oh this with out question. You and many various people who comment ain’t even eating the food 😆. At least throw it up and not pretend to eat it then throw it in the trash. If I don’t care for an artical I’m not attacking and Undermining somones spiritually there relationship God, with THEIR MANHOOD or WOMANHOOD, THEIR HUMANITY THIER INTELLIGENCE. I’m instead ignorring or friggin praying that they understand. Or im thinking “hmmm maybe I don’t get it bc it’s a tough area for me.”

        But I have seen u frequently and your comments are almost always harassing jamar and writers who write heavy topics regarding race in the church.
        You can’t harass somone into thinking about this the same way you do just bc you think your closest to correctness. that to me is supremacy of knowledge. Thats expressing or alluding that knowledge ( Especially from someone who is different than you) is More tainted and untrustworthy Based on bias.
        BUT if it not that then kudos! Maybe you should say what you need to say more nicely 🤷🏾‍♀️ shoot I don’t know?!

      2. Thomas W. says:

        Ms. Annie, I believe you misjudge my heart and mind if you believe I have a disdain for those here. I do not. It is quite the opposite. I have a big heart for those here, for the work they have done and are doing, as I have had a big heart for seeing reconciliation move forward.
        I also comment from fears that we’d rather wander when we don’t have to, because I’ve seen that and I understand the depth, difficulty, and pains that come with it. And, I don’t want to lose what has been forged in fellowship (especially over politics). And, My apologies if my frustrations with a lack of response came through though. The context was an appeal to sitting down with him, valuing him, and the willingness to have my own world view shattered.

        Please see that in my post to Jemar that I didn’t claim an air of superiority, but put myself under the same humanity that the Bible councils us in: we only see in part and are all fallen people. And thus, I attempted to appeal to the possibilities, knowing that both ends and including myself don’t have it all right. The same possibilities he and others have charged when it comes to blindness in others for none of us are immune. But I’m less concerned with this, for even in the who is right/wrong game, it doesn’t matter when it comes to how we should treat others who don’t agree with us.

        So for me, my main contention is that as I applaud and appreciate Jemar’s honesty, openess, the work he does, knowledge of history, love for his brethren, and pacing of these concerns, feelings, pain, etc, I don’t believe that wandering is where we should remain. That it’s entirely possible to step out of the wilderness and cross the Jordan, and there is no better time than right now. It’s because I have a love for you and for him and for others here that I make that appeal. And if we aren’t sure how to do that, amazingly, I think Kanye West just put it on full display this week.

        Remember this week. It’s a pivot point and an enormous opportunity that many are going to underestimate. My Prediction: Kanye will do as much as MLK for African Americans if not more so in the coming decade.

  3. Thomas W. says:

    Also, watch the responses to Kanye West and Candace Owens this week.

    Maybe you can’t hear from the white evangelical crowd, but it’s interesting that Trump had the highest black voter support since Reagan if not higher. And I am honestly curious how that doesn’t break your own dissonance at least enough to shift your judgmentalism to a more open set of possibilities on the matter.

    Kanye gets it.

    1. Tim H says:

      “Highest black voter turnout since Reagan” really? Where did you get info? Had blacks turned out in 2016 as the did in 2008/2012 this election would most likely have gone the other way. Your ignorance is clearly evident when you reference Kanye as a reliable source…kinda like relying on Trump for accurate statements.

      1. Frank says:

        Sorry to disappoint you, Tim H., but I know for a fact that a LOT of blacks voted for Donald Trump.

        Rather than hatred toward white people who also voted for him, you should focus on why so many blacks did.

      2. Thomas W. says:

        My apologies Tim, I should have said Bush. I can’t find the original chart at this point that I saw otherwise, but Bush had 9 and 11% I believe according to Roper. They had McCain at 4%, Romney at 6%, and Trump at 8%. I expect that number will go up this next go around.

        Also, Hillary lost 5% off of Obama’s 2012 election. And you’re right that many chose to stay home, but that wouldn’t factor into the percentages of voters by comparison really.

  4. Thomas W. says:

    “The presidential election of 2016 revealed more clearly than ever in the 21st century where the true loyalties of many white evangelicals rest. Eighty-one percent of those who identified as white evangelicals pulled the lever for the current president. Even a superficial glance at the president’s history before and during his time in office reveals a pattern of bigotry and immaturity. Yet a plurality of theologically and politically conservative white Christians have continued to support him. (You can add a link to an article here; there’s quite a few detailing this steady trend).”

    Jemar,

    Israel spent 40 years wandering the desert due to their sinfulness. I’m not sure it’s best example, especially when they refused to listen to the 2 men who had a vastly different opinion on the matter at hand. Which do we often think we are, and who are we really?

    If we took a superficial glance at Jemar Tisby’s life, could we find you to be bigoted and immature? In Christ should we hold that against you? Should we then place shame and guilt on those who continue to support Jemar Tisby despite that bigotry and immaturity? I ask myself the same questions. We all should, as we’re all depraved sinners.

    As an example, and I’ll be blunt, the response you discuss in this article displays the immaturity of a child who takes their ball and goes home due to pride. We’ve all done that. We’ve all felt that way. The root of it isn’t color based, but natural to man.

    As another, at the end of the article you clearly value those who are struggling with this, and even white people who agree with you, but this can read to others as bigotry from you for those who don’t agree with you on their voting habits. And worse that the Christian who you perceive as struggling with or blind to their oppressive actions shouldn’t be in the same church with you. This is how churches split and segregate. Person A rejects Person B because of their sinfulness. Person A forgets he’s just as depraved and in need of Jesus. Jesus died for the oppressor.

    I listened to your podcast from post-election, and you resay it here about how you and others felt like no one listened to you. Maybe you are the Joshua or Caleb. Maybe they should have listened. But the odds are against all of us being Joshua or Calebs. The reality is that our own dissonance and biases blocks us from clarity and right judgment, and this includes you too. And you don’t seem to challenge yourself enough in this in these articles and podcasts. We can all find articles, and were all good at pacing those who agree with us.

    But what is worse to me is that the continual dredging up of white evangelical sins from your perspective and others are constantly held against them and never forgiven. True forgiveness does not look at people for their sins anymore. You dont find Joshua and Caleb opining about how the entire rest of Israel created a systemic, cyclic issue for 40 years. They are no longer counted against, and not to be constantly reminded of anymore than you remind your own spouse of how she failed you yesterday, today, or tomorrow (or vice versa). That’s true equality, and true value to others in the foundation of Christ and God’s image. It’s fine to talk about the past and how to move forward to counter issues that have become systemic, but this can be separated from projecting white guilt/shame and sins.

    One main reason they don’t listen to you, is because the value you placed on them is/was contingent on you being right. We all see through that, and you know how that feels when vice versa.

    I would love to sit down face to face with you and talk about these things. I’ve requested that before from you, without reply. Which is disappointing, as I appreciate how well you pace others and would love to have my own worldview challenged to shatter my biases and dissonance, I’m just not sure you do.

  5. Anthony J says:

    Thanks this echoes my experience

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